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He is known world over as a crusader who has spent his life working for the welfare of children. Nobel laureate Kailash Satyarthi is a worried man right now, since he believes that the worst victims of a drought are youngsters who are robbed of their childhood. Speaking to CNBC-TV18's Shereen Bhan on the sidelines of the TiEcon 2016 summit, in San Francisco, he said it is crucial that the government works towards making India more child-friendly as a child-centric model will be a long-term sustainable one. He is also not happy with the draft on the anti-child labor bill as he thinks that it is unfair to reduce the list of hazardous jobs. Below is the transcript of Kailash Satyarthi’s interview with Shereen Bhan on CNBC-TV18. Q: it would be wrong of me no to ask you about the work that is being done by your organisation as far as the drought is concerned and you have put out some fairly damning statistics, and I just wanted our viewers to go through the numbers that you have put out. The number of missing children according to your statistics are 35,873. About 22,000 plus have been abducted or forced into child labour. This is all because of the impact of the drought across 10 states? A: It is very unfortunate that in India or anywhere in the world, the natural calamities and disasters push the children to become child slaves, being trafficked and child labour and child marriages and all these things. And unfortunately, this is happening in India now and we are seeing the reports that the number of places, in fact in the 10 states and 253 districts in India, the children are affected by the drought. Q: You have written a letter to the Prime Minister as well asking the government to intervene and declare this a national emergency. What has the response been so far and what are you picking up from the ground and what can be done at this point in time? And also, if you can give us some sense of where these numbers come from. I understand that they are government data, but how have you been able to collate this data? A: I have written a letter to the Prime Minister to prioritise the welfare of children in this situation because children are the worst sufferers, the worst victims of drought. They should not be pushed to marriages, they should not be pushed to leave their home villages, they should not be dropped out from schools and become child labourers. So, in all relief measures and rehabilitation measures, children must be prioritised. I have also requested him to make sure that the all the unspent corporate social responsibility (CSR) money be spent for the drought hit children to ensure that they are not losing their childhood and freedom due to this natural calamity. Q: But, when you talk about CSR money, that is of course incumbent on companies, on how they choose to spend that money? A: No, it is both in fact. Almost Rs 10,000 crore remains unspent this year and out of that, Rs 3,600 crore are from the government sector, from the public sector undertakings (PSU). So, the PSU money could be spent immediately, without any delay. But the Prime Minister can also take the lead as the ex-officio chair of the Disaster Management Authority of the country to call the private sector to spend that unspent money for the cause of children in drought hit areas. Q: Do you believe that there is almost a state of denial at this point in time in terms of how bad the situation really is with the drought? A: I will not say denial, but I will say that we have to prioritise children. I heard that after my letter there is some move. Prime Minister has called some Chief Ministers from the affected states yesterday. So, I have to see the results. But, my focus is on children because once the children are compelled to leave their homes, they may end up in most difficult situations in other parts of the country and that would be very difficult to keep the track whether they are coming back and joining the schools again or what is happening with them. So, we have to see the response. Q: Speaking of policy response so let me also ask you about Anti-Child Labour Bill and whether you believe that there is any forward movement on that because it seems like it’s not a priority area for parliamentarian who seems to be busy with other more pressing matters clearly, but also the version of the bill that was likely to be taken up you weren’t particularly happy with that version, so have you had any dialogue with the government on perhaps reworking the bill and do you foresee the possibility of the bill being taken up soon? A: Absolutely, because the first version of the draft bill which has been cleared by the cabinet is unacceptable to me. I have serious questions about it, about two major lacunas one was that it does not define the family enterprises clearly that is a serious loophole. Another loophole is that the number of industries and occupations processes listed as the hazardous occupations. The suggested draft minimised it, but now I open the dialogue again with the top level. I personally had a meeting with the Ministry of Labour and top officials, the secretary of labour and others just three days ago before coming here and we had got some positive response and I am quite hopeful that government is open to listen to it and in fact they said that they are going to take it back to the parliament with those amendments which I am suggesting. Q: So can you take us through what are the suggestions that you have make specifically on both those issues, one to plug the loophole that could be misused when it comes to defining a company as a family enterprise and secondly I understand that the number of occupations that were listed in the hazardous list has come down from about 80 odd or 83 odd to down to about 3, so what are the recommendations that you have made there? A: So I made three major recommendations, one is that they have to clearly define the family as parents and legal guardians cannot be uncle's, maternal uncle and all those things, the long list of the family that is unacceptable, so it should be clearly defined, but even in this so called family establishments or with the parents children must not be allowed to work in hazardous occupations. They can learn something, they can help the family in free time only after 14 years of age, so between 14 and 18 the children must not be allowed to work in hazardous occupations. Earlier the list was 83, now they have suggested 3, so we requested them to redefine it because this hazardous list has been arrived at after thorough consultations as well as the medical researches and data, so now we cannot revert it back so that’s another thing and thirdly I have asked them to take the whole issue of rehabilitation of free children who are withdrawn from child labour into consideration, so the rehabilitation has to be part of the law and various schemes relating to economic welfare or rehabilitation and development of children could be merged together and there should be one clear scheme. There should be one big flagship programme which can take care of the rehabilitation of such children as well. Q: We don't know when this will go to cabinet or go back to cabinet and then finally be taken to parliament. A: I think it is going to be taken in the parliament. It is a very clear indication from the minister himself that they are trying to push it in this session. Q: We don't have too much time left for this session but you believe that it may be taken up in this session itself? A: May be because these are the words of the minister himself. However it cannot be decided by the minister because there is a long list of other things but he has promised to push it hard. Q: Are you disappointed with the pace of change in India? You told the world, addressing this issue of child labour, child slavery and so on and so forth. Do you believe that India has been lacking in its policy response? We have not even signed up to a lot of the conventions that globally have been signed up? A: This is also a kind of chicken and egg situation. Government agrees that once this law is amended - child labour law of 1986 then the ratification of International Labour Organization (ILO) Convention on the worst forms of child labour and the ILO Convention on minimum age would follow. In-principle government agreed on it. So, I am trying to work with them and trying to pursue in every way that this has to be prioritised, there should not be any excuse for the ratification of ILO Conventions post the passage of this bill. Q: You feel confident of that being done? A: Government did not say no to it. However my ask to them is that every single minute matters. Every single childhood matters. We cannot lose one day in the lives of a child who is trapped into child labour or slavery. So, we cannot wait, that is my effort. Q: Since we are talking about the government, there has been the launch of several programmes - the Skill India programme being just one of them. However for Skill India to be truly meaningful in the context that we are having this conversation, what needs to be done at this point in time? A: I have requested Prime Minister and the government that besides having so many flagship programmes like Swachh Bharat or Clean India or Digital India, Skill India, we have to prioritise to make India child friendly India. Child friendly India means we have to invest more on our children, on their education, we have to invest on freeing them from child labour and prostitution and trafficking. We have to invest in their protection in all ways. So, we have to make child friendly India because the child centric development model would be long term sustainable model because we are going to invest on a generation. If we are able to save one generation then the next generation to follow will save itself.
Keywords
Kailash Satyarthi, drought, child labour, anti-child labour bill, child-centric model, draft bill
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